Someone pls help to see my dyno graph..Need advise....

[Sil80-13]

Hi guys,

Here attached with 2 dyno graph.

The 1st one is before E-Manage install. Just do normal run test.

The 2nd one is after E-Manage installed. HP & torque gain abit.

My question is even the torque gain abit after E-Manage installed but why the torque is so unstable compare to the 1st time normal run test (1st dyno chart) where it is so stable?

As I can see HP gain & it seems the powerband quite ok. I am just curious on the torque part only.

Any sifu here good with dyno graph can help out? Plan to send my car to retune again...

 

[lkeong88]

How come your AFR graph also very funny? Suddenly lean out and then normal back?

 

[chinozie]

Perhaps your running too rich...16 AF ...wow !
try to adjust that, perhaps adjusting your fuel...

Do you got any AFR ? what's the reading ?

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

who dyno tuned ur car btw??... why like made it worse??...

 

[Sil80-13]

How come your AFR graph also very funny? Suddenly lean out and then normal back?

He said lean out that time is because VVT is start running...& that's why it's lean....

---------- Post added at 07:34 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 07:32 AM ----------

Perhaps your running too rich...16 AF ...wow !
try to adjust that, perhaps adjusting your fuel...

Do you got any AFR ? what's the reading ?

My BT internal is stock...I ask him do I need AFR/FPR? He said no need...
By the way, do I need an AFR/FPR

---------- Post added at 07:36 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 07:34 AM ----------

who dyno tuned ur car btw??... why like made it worse??...

Someone in Sunway, Anyway, I will be going back there to retune my car but another tuner. Unlucky the main tuner is not there when I install the E-Manage...

---------- Post added at 07:52 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 07:36 AM ----------

By the way, how about the torque? Very funny. Right? Not stable at all......

 

[wirahybrid]

bro, you did ur dyno at JC rite??

 

[Sil80-13]

bro, you did ur dyno at JC rite??

Yes. Anyway, I have to appologize as now only I realize that the both graph got different on the Torque (kg-m) on the left hand side. The before E-Manage is from 14 - 16 & the after E-Manage installed, the calculation is from 14-15-16. Thats why the graph after with E-Manage is more details & we can see the huge torque line moving. (I hope you guys know what I am talking about)

When I calculate both, it's actually almost the same. My wrong....

Anyway, just want to know Air/Fuel 16 is rich 10 is lean or the other way round?

 

[liz@rd]

the other way round ... higher the no. = lean , lower the no. = rich

 

[mafia_staff]

The AFR after install E-Manage is OK, before install E-Manage the AFR too rich.. The reading of HP and Torque is OK plus minus 5 percent from usual data.. Emm this is 20V Blacktop right? but I think exhaust system need to be improve. Because before install e-manage 7.3K after tuning 6.3K (actual power should come after 4K.. 6K consider too late, already kena tapau then need to chase back the enemy).. Why the graph of torque look like that? why it doesn't look constant? many reason, such as clutch slip, wrong gear ratio (it will draw line putus2), the wrong way to fix the tyre of the car on dyno wheel, the load setting on wheel (dyno setting load on wheel).. So from this graph I can say your engine is healthy and ready to roll out!!! and one more thing, you should change gear after 7.5K - 8K.. No need to play till 10K because the torque going down after 7.5K (No power no more to kayuh your tyre) Just my opinion and 2 cent advise..

 

[AE111_SEG]

Bro
How much Hp can a stock Blacktop 20V can produce?.
I assumed it can produce only 125hp to 130hp?.
Assuming yours is 100% stock .... 144hp is pretty good rite?.

Another thing to note the air temp also plays a part in dyno result?. You dyno at air temp 38 degrees. If you dyno in the morning 30 degrees ......wouldnt you get even higher HP?.

 

[mafia_staff]

From my experience (in front of my eyes situation)..
Standard stock blacktop 20V internal part, standard exractor (just a light mod, cable plug, air filter) a healthy engine should produce 140-148hp..
with a 2 years spark plug or from halfcut spark plug 135hp to 140hp
with a kong piston ring 130-135hp

Air temperature effect the dyno result? the answer is yes.. but the changes is just around 1-3 hp too small changes.. I wrap the cloth soak with icy water at the metal hose intake.. but using 'dry ices' hp increase to 5hp..

Conclusion here- RM60 for a dyno shootout is a big step to know your engine very well, its a first step for moving forward to next mod, and to keep your finance for backup..

 

[pcmoddingmy]

Pretty impressive stuff for a stock BT... however, the graphs should be in the same scale if you want to compare between the two. from the graphs, i can say that the afr before emanage is normal for 20v as it would usually get richer at about 5000rpm until redline.

after emanage, the afr has been tuned to be less rich after 5000 rpm but it does get a little rich at around 6500rpm. Also i noticed that after emanage, the afr is a bit too lean at about 4500rpm, which might cause pinging to occur. So you might want to check on these few things as well.

btw, is this emanage hooked up with ignition and injector harness as well? juding by the number of runs you had, i think you have both of them installed, right?
how much was the cost for install n' tuning?

ps; you would wanna dyno run your car on dyno dynamics as it would have proper loading to simulate the actual whp. expect to lose about -10hp on dyno dynamics though ;)

 

[Sil80-13]

Pretty impressive stuff for a stock BT... however, the graphs should be in the same scale if you want to compare between the two. from the graphs, i can say that the afr before emanage is normal for 20v as it would usually get richer at about 5000rpm until redline.

after emanage, the afr has been tuned to be less rich after 5000 rpm but it does get a little rich at around 6500rpm. Also i noticed that after emanage, the afr is a bit too lean at about 4500rpm, which might cause pinging to occur. So you might want to check on these few things as well.

btw, is this emanage hooked up with ignition and injector harness as well? juding by the number of runs you had, i think you have both of them installed, right?
how much was the cost for install n' tuning?

ps; you would wanna dyno run your car on dyno dynamics as it would have proper loading to simulate the actual whp. expect to lose about -10hp on dyno dynamics though ;)

Bro pcmoddingmy,

Yes. I also got a shock when they told me that my stock BT with this HP is impressive as the tuner told me that lots of BT went to tune there would not get up to 140HP even with E-Manage.
Maybe I am lucky....

You mean i should ask them to retune on the 4500rpm to be not too lean. Right? What you mean by causing pinging to occur? I am not sure about this statement. Sorry bro. English not so good

This E-Manage only hooked up with ignition harness. Without injector harness....Everything cost RM1.4k.

Dyno Dynamics? Means the dyno/tuning I do is not heavy dyno machine. Right?

---------- Post added at 12:28 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:23 AM ----------

The AFR after install E-Manage is OK, before install E-Manage the AFR too rich.. The reading of HP and Torque is OK plus minus 5 percent from usual data.. Emm this is 20V Blacktop right? but I think exhaust system need to be improve. Because before install e-manage 7.3K after tuning 6.3K (actual power should come after 4K.. 6K consider too late, already kena tapau then need to chase back the enemy).. Why the graph of torque look like that? why it doesn't look constant? many reason, such as clutch slip, wrong gear ratio (it will draw line putus2), the wrong way to fix the tyre of the car on dyno wheel, the load setting on wheel (dyno setting load on wheel).. So from this graph I can say your engine is healthy and ready to roll out!!! and one more thing, you should change gear after 7.5K - 8K.. No need to play till 10K because the torque going down after 7.5K (No power no more to kayuh your tyre) Just my opinion and 2 cent advise..

Thanks for the comment bro....

 

[lkeong88]

No doubt your stock hp is higher than normal but your torque is not high at all, if you check around you can see quite a few hitting 15.xx torque with stock.

---------- Post added at 02:02 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:01 AM ----------

Forgot to add if the engine detects some knocks the tuning will be ignored same goes to the AFR

 

[pcmoddingmy]

Bro pcmoddingmy,

Yes. I also got a shock when they told me that my stock BT with this HP is impressive as the tuner told me that lots of BT went to tune there would not get up to 140HP even with E-Manage.
Maybe I am lucky....

You mean i should ask them to retune on the 4500rpm to be not too lean. Right? What you mean by causing pinging to occur? I am not sure about this statement. Sorry bro. English not so good

This E-Manage only hooked up with ignition harness. Without injector harness....Everything cost RM1.4k.

Dyno Dynamics? Means the dyno/tuning I do is not heavy dyno machine. Right?

Well, yup... rarely see stock BT getting 140hp even with E-manage.
Retune at 4500 rpm to make it a bit richer might prevent pinging (aka knocking). But if you're not experiencing any knocking, then just leave it as it is.
RM1.4k for base unit with ignition harness, install plus tuning is not a bad deal.

Perhaps you mind listing out the list of external mods? Extractors, piping size/type and airfilter type.

Well, Dyno Dynamics is another brand/type of dyno machine. The one you dynoed on is using Dynojet. AFAIK, there are only a few places having Dyno Dynamics including Millennium Motorsports (Sunway) and APD Workshop... prolly because Dyno Dynamics is expensive compared to other dynos.

FYI: http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/tech-engine-management-systems/254820-most-accurate-dyno-machine-in-malaysia.html
http://www.b20vtec.com/forums/general-tech/350757-dynojet-vs-dyno-dynamics.html

Happy Tuning!

 

[Sil80-13]

Well, yup... rarely see stock BT getting 140hp even with E-manage.
Retune at 4500 rpm to make it a bit richer might prevent pinging (aka knocking). But if you're not experiencing any knocking, then just leave it as it is.
RM1.4k for base unit with ignition harness, install plus tuning is not a bad deal.

Perhaps you mind listing out the list of external mods? Extractors, piping size/type and airfilter type.

Well, Dyno Dynamics is another brand/type of dyno machine. The one you dynoed on is using Dynojet. AFAIK, there are only a few places having Dyno Dynamics including Millennium Motorsports (Sunway) and APD Workshop... prolly because Dyno Dynamics is expensive compared to other dynos.

FYI: http://www.zerotohundred.com/newfor...0-most-accurate-dyno-machine-in-malaysia.html
http://www.b20vtec.com/forums/general-tech/350757-dynojet-vs-dyno-dynamics.html

Happy Tuning!

Knocking.....IC....anyway, I only feel knocking sometimes in very low RPM...But did not experience & did not hear any knocking sound when lean at 3000-4500rpm at that time. Which mean is still save for my engine. Right?

Btw, is there any difference on torque when we use different rim? For example if we use lighter rim, dyno time do we get higher torque? Sorry bro if this a noob question...

I am using 4-1 extractor, 2.3" piping, HKS air-filter....

---------- Post added at 08:30 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:26 AM ----------

No doubt your stock hp is higher than normal but your torque is not high at all, if you check around you can see quite a few hitting 15.xx torque with stock.

---------- Post added at 02:02 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:01 AM ----------

Forgot to add if the engine detects some knocks the tuning will be ignored same goes to the AFR

lkeong88,

Which means according to my graph, at 3000-4500rpm is lean but there is no knocking sound at all, is it means that can't detect tuning at that range off time?

Means normal BT torque should have 15+...Now I see. means my torque is low :hmmmm2:
What actually makes my torque so low???
What is the difference between using 16V 8" clutch set & 20V 8.5" clutch set?

As you said few hitting 15.xx torque with stock internal or totally stock from exhaust piping,xtractor,filter & etc....?

Btw, got to know that stock BT engine torque is 120ft-lb @ 5200rpm...120ft-lb equal to how many kg-M reading?

 

[lkeong88]

Actually the torque reading will vary depending on extractor and exhaust size too. If you change to bigger sized exhaust or extractor torque drops but HP increases. If you look at hypertune's project car 101, their torque firgure reached 16.XX with stock extractor and stock airflow. I got 15.1 on full stock, now I changed extractor haven't dyno yet.

What I mean is, if you tune until it knocks, the next few times you drive, the ECU will go into safe mode and not take the reading of emanage, that is what most people say as emanage reset setting. Same as running to lean or too rich with the injector setting, after sometime the ecu starts to ignore.

 

[Sil80-13]

Actually the torque reading will vary depending on extractor and exhaust size too. If you change to bigger sized exhaust or extractor torque drops but HP increases. If you look at hypertune's project car 101, their torque firgure reached 16.XX with stock extractor and stock airflow. I got 15.1 on full stock, now I changed extractor haven't dyno yet.

What I mean is, if you tune until it knocks, the next few times you drive, the ECU will go into safe mode and not take the reading of emanage, that is what most people say as emanage reset setting. Same as running to lean or too rich with the injector setting, after sometime the ecu starts to ignore.

Maybe Im using 4-1 extrator...

Sounds like you are saying E-Manage not so good to use as setting will be back to factory ECU setting after some time...Is this what u mean bro?

Or anyone can put some comment on E-Manage?

Anyway, as you can see my 1st grap without E-Manage, stock ECU, still runs lean...

 

[brianchoon]

wei....what happen like this wan??

 

[nurburing]

I noted that the torque curve have improved throughout the low to high revs. very good indeed. maybe you should find a good tuner to futher road tune your mid to high rev hp.

i recommend you Optima workshop at pandan indah, very good tuner...Ah Yee 012-231 3638