Japan GP 2006

[GT3]

but but but...what about Ferrari? F2005 was a great car too? Michael came out in front of Alonso after pitted together with Kimi....
i can't figure that out, is it bcoz F2005 as fast as Mclaren or faster than Renault , Michael a better driver than Alonso or Alonso a shitty driver? enlighten me pls

i don exactly understand ur saying abt f2005.. so if u don mind pls elaborate further?

btw to me michael is a better driver than kimi or fernando even though that 2 is closing up the gap.. haha.. but to say alonso is a shity driver is pushing it..

i guess u and silverfish got something wrong abt my opinion.. the reason for what i wrote in this thread is that i couldnt really bear to see ppl think kimi was the best driver for Japan GP jus becoz he won the race from 17th place.. it was a brilliant driver don get me mistaken i jus felt it was unfair for alonso coz credit wasnt given to his brilliant drive as well.. in that race i believe u saw how smart n calculated driver alonso is and also how insanely he could be.. i m jus saying to my opinion he was a better driver for the race even he dint win the race.. (for reasons he couldnt control) kimi was great that race.. jus that i think alonso was more special.. thats all

 

[GT3]

That's not PR lar. Itu cakap betul punya. It is Alonso's and Pat's post race comments. So you are suggesting that they are lying? Previously, they would admit the McLaren's were faster. I remember very clearly. Even at Brazil where BEFORE the race Renault claimed to have an equal car, AFTER the race they admitted they were wrong. PR itu lain cerita. There's nothing wrong with admitting they have a slower car. They do it all the time. Don't be silly.

Fisichella? What about him? He got chopped by Kimi down to 1) His rear tyre wear 2) He panicked 3) Raikkonen drove his socks off for the last 5 laps 4) He got trouble from a backmarker 5) He made a mistake leading into the chicane and final corner enabling Raikkonen to take the slipstream and pull through. Not because Raikkonen had a hugely faster car.

Sure one lap isn't the most accurate, but it gives you an idea of how fast the respective cars are. Which is more accurate than your judgement of speed through the tele. You keep harping on the McLaren being a couple of seconds faster. Where's your proof?

And, just to set things straight, I'm talking purely about Suzuka, not the other GPs where the McLarens showed obvious advantage in speed.

No he didn't choose the shorter gear for better acceleration. They set it up on basis of the conditions on previous days which were damp. The thing is, on a dry track, that short 7th gear makes it more difficult for him to overtake.

well like it anot its PR.. PR is not abt lying.. its abt presenting the truth at its best appearance.. while renault do admit they were slower they will always say positive thing again right before they end their press release.. its jus how its conducted for commercial reason.. its not lying.. its jus looking at things positively..

anyway back to the topic.. while ur right abt the one lap gives u idea of roughly how fast cars are ur also right in saying it doesnt show the truthful picture.. n sorry i never say mclaren was a couple seconds faster.. 1 to 2 mayb but thats all and so to be clear this advantage only appear later the race where all the tire wear is taken into consideration.. proof is simple n ready.. kimi's laptime right before the race end.. while its true he drove as hard as he could (n was brilliant) renault wasnt that fast that time due to tire wear? n even before fisi made those mistakes u claim the renault jus wasnt as fast as it was like the beginning of the race.. mclaren at that pt was faster (at least to fisi's car).. its a fact..

like it anot we will never agree on who is the better driver for the race.. while i admit kimi drove brilliantly n won the race i think partly that was due to the fact the mclaren is jus more competitive at the pt.. n to be clear i think alonso did a better job thats all.. like i mentioned earlier on... alonso deserve more respect n credit

 

[zeroTohundred]

i don exactly understand ur saying abt f2005.. so if u don mind pls elaborate further?

btw to me michael is a better driver than kimi or fernando even though that 2 is closing up the gap.. haha.. but to say alonso is a shity driver is pushing it..

i guess u and silverfish got something wrong abt my opinion.. the reason for what i wrote in this thread is that i couldnt really bear to see ppl think kimi was the best driver for Japan GP jus becoz he won the race from 17th place.. it was a brilliant driver don get me mistaken i jus felt it was unfair for alonso coz credit wasnt given to his brilliant drive as well.. in that race i believe u saw how smart n calculated driver alonso is and also how insanely he could be.. i m jus saying to my opinion he was a better driver for the race even he dint win the race.. (for reasons he couldnt control) kimi was great that race.. jus that i think alonso was more special.. thats all

geez....you was talking about heavy fuel load, and what a good car(much more faster) Mclaren had coz Raikonen was able to go as fast as Alonso( with lesser fuel). So i gotta ask how on earth Michael was able to come out in front of Alonso after the 1st pit stop 5 laps later? Is it the car, the driver or uncrontrolable reason,again?

And for the last time on Suzuka GP, only the best driver may win a race, credit to the winner. Jesus, don't lie to yourself that Mclaren got a much more faster car in Japan anymore dude, i let you see the time and you still go on with diff bulls.

Damn, i getting tired of replying, i replied more in 2 days than i normally do in 1 month.

 

[GT3]

geez....you was talking about heavy fuel load, and what a good car(much more faster) Mclaren had coz Raikonen was able to go as fast as Alonso( with lesser fuel). So i gotta ask how on earth Michael was able to come out in front of Alonso after the 1st pit stop 5 laps later? Is it the car, the driver or uncrontrolable reason,again?

And for the last time on Suzuka GP, only the best driver may win a race, credit to the winner.

Damn, i getting tired of replying, i replied more in 2 days than i normally do in 1 month.

i don exactly remember the incident u were trying to say but if i dint get it wrongly it was the incident from fia.. alonso loose at least 10, 20 sec from that incident?? n thats why he was behind michael after the pit stop?? don that make sense??

anyway.. like i said.. u might think so but sorry i cant agree.. sometimes best drivers win a race but sometimes its jus not.. to me alonso perform better this race.. (no disrespect to kimi who perform brilliant too.. jus felt fernando was better)

 

[GT3]

zerotohundred:

hahaha.. don get annoyed my fren.. mclaren is a faster car.. no doubt abt it.. its consistently faster car thru out he race than say a renault.. its a fact.. haha.. its not bull. but anyway guess its tough for u to accept..

 

[zeroTohundred]

zerotohundred:

hahaha.. don get annoyed my fren.. mclaren is a faster car.. no doubt abt it.. its consistently faster car thru out he race than say a renault.. its a fact.. haha.. its not bull. but anyway guess its tough for u to accept..

nah,i think F2005 is a much more faster car than the rest if the tyre is good,that thing waas flying in Imola!!We shall end this right now coz Shanghai GP is coming...more bashing,thrashing expected after that....LOL

Anyway ya all, i heard someone talked about a naked carbon Zonda F coming to Malaysia, anyone can veryfy this?

 

[GT3]

nah,i think F2005 is a much more faster car than the rest if the tyre is good,that thing waas flying in Imola!!We shall end this right now coz Shanghai GP is coming...more bashing,thrashing expected after that....LOL

Anyway ya all, i heard someone talked about a naked carbon Zonda F coming to Malaysia, anyone can veryfy this?

i definately hope F2005 will be quick.. its time for a three horse race

naked carbon zonda f?? hmmmm sound interesting..

 

[si|verfish]

i don exactly understand ur saying abt f2005.. so if u don mind pls elaborate further?

btw to me michael is a better driver than kimi or fernando even though that 2 is closing up the gap.. haha.. but to say alonso is a shity driver is pushing it..

i guess u and silverfish got something wrong abt my opinion.. the reason for what i wrote in this thread is that i couldnt really bear to see ppl think kimi was the best driver for Japan GP jus becoz he won the race from 17th place.. it was a brilliant driver don get me mistaken i jus felt it was unfair for alonso coz credit wasnt given to his brilliant drive as well.. in that race i believe u saw how smart n calculated driver alonso is and also how insanely he could be.. i m jus saying to my opinion he was a better driver for the race even he dint win the race.. (for reasons he couldnt control) kimi was great that race.. jus that i think alonso was more special.. thats all

Vice versa lar. You couldn't bear to hear others say Raikkonen was the best driver in Japan. We wouldn't sit back and let you say that Alonso did better. I never got your opinion wrong. Of course you would never see it as we see it, even though we have given you adequate evidence. Neither would we agree with your views.

 

[si|verfish]

well like it anot its PR.. PR is not abt lying.. its abt presenting the truth at its best appearance.. while renault do admit they were slower they will always say positive thing again right before they end their press release.. its jus how its conducted for commercial reason.. its not lying.. its jus looking at things positively...

Yalor, saying positive things. Like, "We are catching up to the McLaren..." etc. But they won't lie when giving post race comments. So when Pat and Alonso said Renault were a match for McLaren, they were serious. You can't deny this.

...anyway back to the topic.. while ur right abt the one lap gives u idea of roughly how fast cars are ur also right in saying it doesnt show the truthful picture.. n sorry i never say mclaren was a couple seconds faster.. 1 to 2 mayb but thats all and so to be clear this advantage only appear later the race where all the tire wear is taken into consideration.. proof is simple n ready.. kimi's laptime right before the race end.. while its true he drove as hard as he could (n was brilliant) renault wasnt that fast that time due to tire wear? n even before fisi made those mistakes u claim the renault jus wasnt as fast as it was like the beginning of the race.. mclaren at that pt was faster (at least to fisi's car).. its a fact...

1 to 2 is already a couple lar. And I'll show you again why Raikkonen reeled in Fisichella at 1 second a lap.

1 . K. Raikkonen - 1:31.540 ( Lap Record )

2 . F. Alonso - 1:31.599 (+ 0.059 )

3 . G. Fisichella - 1:32.522 (+ 0.982 )

Raikkonen's pace WAS a second a lap faster than whatever Fisichella could ever manage. Fisichella drove as hard as he could possibly drive. Raikkonen was just a second faster than he was per lap. He never stood a chance. If it was Alonso instead of Fisichella, Raikkonen wouldn't have been able to chop of 1 second every lap.

Now that is the fact. Yours was just a conjecture.

like it anot we will never agree on who is the better driver for the race.. while i admit kimi drove brilliantly n won the race i think partly that was due to the fact the mclaren is jus more competitive at the pt.. n to be clear i think alonso did a better job thats all.. like i mentioned earlier on... alonso deserve more respect n credit

Yes, we will never see eye to eye. And I stated Alonso did a great job too. But I think Raikkonen did better. See.

Actually, this is a futile attempt to gain common ground. And it is a shame that you can't agree with me. But I can take heart in the fact that Martin Brundle nominated Raikkonen for Drive of the Day.

Been very nice debating with you

 

[koolspyda]

One of the reasons why we love Raikkonen so much. His skill and talent is one thing, but it is his sheer mental strength and determination that sets him apart from his peers. There has been plenty of other occasions when he has demonstrated his incredible will power and never-say-die attitude.

the steely mental strength, I supposse it's a 'finn~ish' thingy.
MIka & a host of rally champions are fins. coincidence? maybe. ;)

alonso is very good driver but Kimi is slighty better. Some base it on facts, statistics, some base that on gut feeling some on seeing the "attitude of the driver on track". On more occasions , i have observed, kimi still edged a little over.

if there is a contest that shows each driver driving each others cars, in my opinion there could only be one.

aggressive, smart, steely, highly determined...etc are some of the superlatives to describe kimi & BTW i knew he was destined for greater(nest) ;) ever since he was driving for a sauber.

and oh, i have a signed kimi photo by the man himself (when in sauber).
He could hadly coined a sentence in english then.

we can argue till the cows fly, fact is, alonso is this years F1 drivers champion (that can speak volume to alonso fans). fact is also kimi won more races (& some from the very rear end)

this make china a very interesting race.

whatever the final result it wont change alonsos title. but it would certainly show who actually was & should have a more reliable engine.

 

[RPM_freak]

This debate aint gonna end untill we put both the drivers in an identical car and ask them to set a few fast laps... Its always been McLaren policy to first build the fastest car on the track and then think about reliability (hence many mechanical failures experienced by the McLaren team) ..

There wasnt much heel to toe action between both this drivers..most of the time they had differing pit strategies which kept them far apart during the race..maybe we can see Kimi and Alanso on the 1st row of the starting grid and have a shoot out see if the mclaren can keep up with the renaults super traction control system.

Maybe they should build like the track in the rallay circuit, two cars side on diffrent race tracks .. You know the kind iam talking about .. That would be fun Kimi and Alanso reving up ..

 

[koolspyda]

ohh, they have those fun competition to pit all types of racing champions on respective cars in rally, buggy, etc.

I believe MS took part in those but i dont remember him taking top honours in those.

 

[BlackSamurai]

This debate aint gonna end untill we put both the drivers in an identical car and ask them to set a few fast laps... Its always been McLaren policy to first build the fastest car on the track and then think about reliability (hence many mechanical failures experienced by the McLaren team) ..

no way we can do that, even you give both driver the same car, they will still adjust the setup to suite their driving style. More over track condition like temperate, dirty or cleaner race track, wind direction will need to take into account.

 

[RPM_freak]

Yeah .. but to gain the best setup, the driver has to be able to feel his car.. and the better the driver, the better he can adapt to the car .. Obviously we can only control a certain amout of parameters .. the rest .. will just have to be counted into unforseen circumstances ..

 

[prodigy]

ohh, they have those fun competition to pit all types of racing champions on respective cars in rally, buggy, etc.

I believe MS took part in those but i dont remember him taking top honours in those.

It was the Race Of Champions. The winner is called the "Champion of Champions". The competition is divided into two type of race, Racing and Rally. Both category is competed by champions and world class racers in their own field. The winner of racing and rally category will meet in what we call the champion of champions whereby both will race in a 3 heat race while driving in rally car and a race car.

You'd be surprised who won it. Not Michael Schumacher but a talented young Finn called Heikki Kovalainen. I think currently he's racing in one of those smaller Formula series. He actually trounced Michael Schumacher while on the way to meeting Sebastien Loeb in the finals.

 

[GT3]

.

1 to 2 is already a couple lar. And I'll show you again why Raikkonen reeled in Fisichella at 1 second a lap.

1 . K. Raikkonen - 1:31.540 ( Lap Record )

2 . F. Alonso - 1:31.599 (+ 0.059 )

3 . G. Fisichella - 1:32.522 (+ 0.982 )

Raikkonen's pace WAS a second a lap faster than whatever Fisichella could ever manage. Fisichella drove as hard as he could possibly drive. Raikkonen was just a second faster than he was per lap. He never stood a chance. If it was Alonso instead of Fisichella, Raikkonen wouldn't have been able to chop of 1 second every lap.

Now that is the fact. Yours was just a conjecture.

Been very nice debating with you

hehe.. conjecture anot its tough to say.. unless u could provide a whole list of laptimes from both renault n mclaren since the race start its tough to say who is right n who is not..

anyway its been a long debate n i don see it going anywhere.. haha.. obviously both of us will never agree on this.. but its still nice to discuss abt it with such enthusiast ppl :)

 

[RPM_freak]

Besides this two i think that Jensan Button is dem highly overrated. Besides his marketability as a British driver, i dont see him having any special abilities. Could it be the car ?? Honda cant be that bad rite ?? And what a dismal performance by the Jordan team this year. They were practically almost on par with the Minardi`s .. :thumpdown

 

[si|verfish]

Button could be one of those Barichello, Coulthard types, you know what I mean? At best, only second best. They are fast on their day, but their days aren't often and they lack some special something to make them Champions. Of course, they could get a bit of luck and end up in the driver's seat of the dominating car ie. Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve.

 

[koolspyda]

It was the Race Of Champions. The winner is called the "Champion of Champions". The competition is divided into two type of race, Racing and Rally. Both category is competed by champions and world class racers in their own field. The winner of racing and rally category will meet in what we call the champion of champions whereby both will race in a 3 heat race while driving in rally car and a race car.

You'd be surprised who won it. Not Michael Schumacher but a talented young Finn called Heikki Kovalainen. I think currently he's racing in one of those smaller Formula series. He actually trounced Michael Schumacher while on the way to meeting Sebastien Loeb in the finals.

i seen it several times (annual series right?) but it was normally dominated by rally based drivers.

MS? well there is more at stake as being a F1 champion (worth $$$$), he isnt going to break his arm over losing the title "champions of champions". after all it was for fun spectacle to the spectators.


about whose the better driver between alonso & kimi?

alonso is emerging & kimi is maturing into a champion material. With a bit of more luck he could have been F1 driver champion for 2 seasons but no, that life.

Years to come, will see who's the 'more' dominant driver.

 

[si|verfish]

Luck plays a big part. Who knows how many more GPs Senna would have won? What if Schumacher wasn't driving for team Ferrari?