Japan GP 2006

Alanso is pretty good .. come on guys .. We can see it in the qualifying lap times he puts in. He only gets beaten by a few sec by Raikonen, thz coz he has a better car. Kimi would have won the tittle if he could have a more reliable car .. but tht would have made the Championship boring rite :biggrin:

Japan GP always seems more interesting cos its at the end of the season .. unlike sepang where every is dieing of a heat stroke .. !! hope next year got better challangers like ferrari .. honda..toyota..mclaren .. renault .. VRoom VRoom ... :tee:
 
This is where I come in and provide the wisdom :D

Ok, a couple of factual nuggets first and foremost that you should all digest first.

1) Alonso himself felt he had a faster car than Kimi this time. Which is quite possible especially when you go on and read number 2.
2) Kimi said his 7th gear was a little short, causing him to hit the rev limiter repeatedly, losing top end speed, making overtaking a bit tricky. He can close up on others no problem but when he wants to overtake he loses top end and can't pull through.
3) Judging by the lap times, it is clear that the Renault was definitely a match for the McLaren at Suzuka.

Now I'm sure you all know there is only a couple of obvious spots to overtake at Suzuka. The chicane and the subsequent corner into the start finish straight. Of the notable overtaking maneuvers by Alonso and Kimi, they were mostly at the start finish straight (apart from Alonso's insane move at the 130R, but we'll come back to that later). To pull off the maneuver at the start finish straight, you've got to get up close to the car in front through the 130R, into the chicane, into the final corner, get into the slip stream and then try to blast past.

Now, given Kimi's 7th gear problem, this is a bit tricky. Which is why he had problems overcoming the faster cars. Alonso didn't have this problem. Which is why he got past Webber with this maneuver no problem (except he went for the inside and nearly got pushed by Webber fully into the grass, another potentially self endangering move, but we'll come back to that later). Kimi managed to get past Fisichella's Renault mainly because Fisi made a mistake into the chicane, under pressure, he was too cautious, and compromised himself into the final corner and allowed Kimi to come right up his backside. He lacked the drive out of the corner, Kimi took the slip stream, took the outside lane, engine bouncing at the rev limiter, commited himself into taking the racing line, Fisi backed off not wanting to crash and Kimi took P1.

Why did I go to the trouble of explaining that? Because I wanted to smash the notion that the McLaren was much faster than the Renault at Suzuka. They were quite equal, this time at least.

Back to Alonso. Even after his incident with Klien and the FIA, he was still infront of Kimi. Why did Kimi manage afterwards to cover more ground to Fisi than Alonso? 2 things. Firstly, for all his spectacular overtaking and risk taking, Alonso wasn't as effective as Kimi was this time (Alonso is usually the calmer head, not this time). Kimi was patient, took his time and took full advantage of his pit strategy. Secondly, Alonso's pit strategy was less than brilliant. But then he couldn't really blame the traffic because Kimi had more of the same.

If there is any arguing that Alonso should have won, it would have been the Klien incident. But hey, shit happens. Just ask Kimi Raikkonen. If his luck was slightly better, he would have been World Champion. So, you win some, you lose some.

Ok, now the Alonso overtaking maneuver. The 130R on Schumacher was brave and commited. But also very dangerous. Alex Yoong commented that it was quite dodgy because it could easily have ended in tears. And he's right because he was off the racing line, potentially with a lot of dust a debris which could easily have taken the grip from the wheels at such a high speed, high downforce, high load corner. And Alonso would have spun out. It was a move borne of frustration, being stuck behind Schumacher for so many laps, that Alonso decided to throw caution to the wind and go for it. He pulled it off, hats off to him. And also I'd like to retract my previous statements that he isn't a real racer. He definitely is one. Alonso decided to let it all hang out, now that he has nothing to lose. Fine, but there is this thought in my mind that the previous, more calculative Alonso, would have not tried such a risky maneuver, used his brain, and tried something safer.
 
Yo Bro s/fish..I totally agree wiz u.I had nearly an heart attack when kimi launched

that sort of move.1 thing I was very confident that kimi will do that becoz he was so patience ,brainy and the most important,blindingly quick.He deserve the WDC better.
 
BlackSamurai said:
ops, not, sunnyboy did notice that. :D

sunnyboy, not mabuk, but really really love those racing.

but what the heck that FIA did that ask Alonso to pull back?

me also enjoy this race....very exciting...too bad montoya didnt join the fun...
 
GT3,
Renault was on par with Mclaren in Suzuka, everybody knew this,accept the fact. Fisi loses out despite having a good car because Raikonen is a much more better and committed driver than him, not having a much more faster car than him.

silverfish pretty much sums it all, well done.
 
I missed the start of the race.. what happen to montoya actually .. all i saw was a big cloud of dust and the rear of his car was missing like Godzilla has it for lunch ..

Kimi & Mon must wrap up the constructors title for McLaren, they deserve it for coming up with such a competitive machine, not to mention it looks good to..

Poor Ferrari must be wondering how did i go from DOMINCE to ORDINARY ..
 
hahaha.. well its really simple actually.. mclaren is better than renault in terms of speed this yr is a clear fact n i wont argue much abt it with u all..

however.. despite all the facts u all put out abt drivers and stuff (which is reasonable to some extend) its all hearsay and opinions by diff parties.. n its in a way its quite bias becoz i m certain at least 1 of u is a kimi fan..

if u all read my post carefully i dint try to say that kimi was lucky to win the race.. i said he deserve it but to me i hope some1 else had won it (alonso) not only becoz i think he deserve it as well its becoz personnaly i think he was more impressive to me in the race (not a margin but jus abit more)..

i been having this sort of arguement abt alonso n kimi so often in this thread that frankly i m kinda bored.. haha.. what i wanna say is that diff ppl will hav diff opinion abt the race.. urs differ from mine n mine differs from urs.. its common if some of u cant accept my opinion becoz i couldnt accept some of urs.. no big deal of coz unless i stand out and say kimi an arse for winning the race which is a very offensive opinion by nature.. then its obvious i shud be flamed..

freestyler:

this one is not up my arse in case u think it is.. i think its jus a arguement abt the race and obviously its not personnal.. of coz i can see u try to make it personnal.. or arent u?
 
Chill bro...it perhaps most ppl find Kimi is always more than alonso .It's not only here..even certain web ..odds and votes says the same thing.Therefore when Kimi lost the WDC and still has no lack of motivation/speed in the ill fated mclaren,that is the thing that inspire the most.Same goes here when kimi won it in Suzuka adding that last lap thriller wiz fisi,that gave no value for alonso overtaking MS in 130R.Well both are champion material...
 
GT3, it isn't "my opinion" that Kimi is better than Alonso. There is evidence to show this. I've given plenty above. I didn't give my opinion, it was all a summary of reading reports and interviews.

And I will state it again.

For the 2005 Japanese GP at Suzuka; The Renaults were a match for the McLarens in terms of pace as proven by official lap times and driver comments. Both Alonso and Raikkonen had problems. Both started from the back of the grid and sliced their way to the front. Both had problems with traffic. Kimi won and Alonso was 3rd. It is clear who was the better driver on this day (I will not comment on overall this time). This is a broad view over the whole race and not clouded by which driver pulled off the more spectacular overtaking manoeuvre. Bottomline, with near equal cars (as stated earlier), Alonso went from 16th to 3rd. Raikkonen went from 17th to 1st.
 
igor30 said:
Chill bro...it perhaps most ppl find Kimi is always more than alonso .It's not only here..even certain web ..odds and votes says the same thing.Therefore when Kimi lost the WDC and still has no lack of motivation/speed in the ill fated mclaren,that is the thing that inspire the most.Same goes here when kimi won it in Suzuka adding that last lap thriller wiz fisi,that gave no value for alonso overtaking MS in 130R.Well both are champion material...



hehe i m chilled.. i knew that are more ppl fond of kimi as compare to alonso.. believe it anot i personnally look highly upon kimi's driving.. what i believe is that he is a champion in the future (jus matter of time) for the quality he shows.. his driving and his attitude
 
si|verfish said:
GT3, it isn't "my opinion" that Kimi is better than Alonso. There is evidence to show this. I've given plenty above. I didn't give my opinion, it was all a summary of reading reports and interviews.

And I will state it again.

For the 2005 Japanese GP at Suzuka; The Renaults were a match for the McLarens in terms of pace as proven by official lap times and driver comments. Both Alonso and Raikkonen had problems. Both started from the back of the grid and sliced their way to the front. Both had problems with traffic. Kimi won and Alonso was 3rd. It is clear who was the better driver on this day (I will not comment on overall this time). This is a broad view over the whole race and not clouded by which driver pulled off the more spectacular overtaking manoeuvre. Bottomline, with near equal cars (as stated earlier), Alonso went from 16th to 3rd. Raikkonen went from 17th to 1st.


well summary is abt opinion like it anot.. official lap times doesnt count much becoz its jus one lap.. like i mentioned in previous post.. mclaren are kinder on tire.. its race pace would be much faster by the end of the race as others hav worn their tires out.. n if u wanna use result to say who is the better driver well its simple really.. i could admit kimi is better in this race(if we use result as a base) but wouldnt it make u hav to admit alonso is a better driver all yr round? (since he won the title with 2 race to go).. u cant right? same reason i couldnt agree kimi is better this race.. he won n he deserve it.. i jus feel if we missed out a better race when FIA did the mistake becoz if alonso dint fall back to let klien past he would hav clear michael in no time n hav a much clearer track in front which means he would probably stand a real chance of winning. again its tough to make u accept it becoz its mine opinion so i m not gonna try.. i m jus mentioning it

P/s: abt the shit does happen thingy.. yea i m fully aware of it.. thats why i dint say anything abt kimi does not deserve to win..
 
GT3 said:
well summary is abt opinion like it anot.. official lap times doesnt count much becoz its jus one lap.. like i mentioned in previous post.. mclaren are kinder on tire.. its race pace would be much faster by the end of the race as others hav worn their tires out.. n if u wanna use result to say who is the better driver well its simple really.. i could admit kimi is better in this race(if we use result as a base) but wouldnt it make u hav to admit alonso is a better driver all yr round? (since he won the title with 2 race to go).. u cant right? same reason i couldnt agree kimi is better this race.. he won n he deserve it.. i jus feel if we missed out a better race when FIA did the mistake becoz if alonso dint fall back to let klien past he would hav clear michael in no time n hav a much clearer track in front which means he would probably stand a real chance of winning. again its tough to make u accept it becoz its mine opinion so i m not gonna try.. i m jus mentioning it

P/s: abt the shit does happen thingy.. yea i m fully aware of it.. thats why i dint say anything abt kimi does not deserve to win..
Yeah and Renaults are better in acceleration, of the line and out of corners.

I'm not "just" using results, but a broad view of the race. They both had problems. One of them got a better result.

Ok, lets put all the "shit happens" incidents into play. Raikkonen won more GPs than Alonso. How bout subtracting one "shit happens" each. So, lets say Alonso won Suzuka, but Raikkonen won San Marino. Raikkonen still won more GPs than Alonso.

Sensational drives? Raikkonen had sensational drives all season long, having to fight from the middle of the grid a couple of times, dominating wins, you name it.

These are just some of the reasons why more people agree, like me, that Kimi Raikkonen has been the superior driver, this season.

Sure, you wouldn't agree of course. I'm letting you know why more people think so. And it isn't without reason.
 
-fRëɧt¥£3R- said:
all we r tryin 2 say is give Kimi a Minardi, he will still take P1.
Now, that's stretching it a bit, mate. :biggrin:

Not even Senna could get P1 in a Minardi. And Schumacher wouldn't even try. He'll go; "I zon't want to drive zis piece of zhit. Give it to Ralf!"
 
Some interesting quotes:

I think we can take heart from the pace the car has shown today. It was a race where traffic played a big part but, even so, the table of fastest laps is revealing. It shows Fernando and Kimi separated by very little indeed, and that is promising for China." - Pat Symonds
Proves Alonso's Renault was just as fast as Raikkonen's McLaren.

You don't have anything left. It is your last chance. He's radioed in, "How many laps to go?" One lap. And he just did it, just phenomenal - Ron Dennis on Kimi snatching 1st place from Fisichella on the last lap
One of the reasons why we love Raikkonen so much. His skill and talent is one thing, but it is his sheer mental strength and determination that sets him apart from his peers. There has been plenty of other occasions when he has demonstrated his incredible will power and never-say-die attitude.
 
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lets run a little poll on this, shall we? LOL

Hey GT3, FYI, me no Mclaren or Kimi fanboy, i dislike Mclaren(guess which team i support)
BTW, why you have to call others some fanboy? Is this the way you respond when you ran out of points to defend your stand?
About the FIA error, Flavio Briatore or Alonso wasn't complaining, why you keep bitching about that?

It's a great race , and all i know is that the world champ's a victory short of Raikonen now, how proud can the WDC be if Raikonen won in Shanghai again? I certainly would like to see that to happend....LOL
 

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