Dyno Results thread.. suck up your ego and post yours.

[shiroitenshi]

Well.. Finally arrived at home from that long trip down to KL and JB. Feel like sleeping now.. but figured I'd do this post and read the responses tommorrow evening.

Sucked up the guts to go and dyno just for the sake of it and also did it while waiting for a friend to get his wired up with unichip... and expecting the worst, since I have slight compression loss on piston no 2.

but got a surprise... dunno if it's the mugen extractor, of the halfcut I bought got 'toyol' inside.. from the earlier inspection of the block when the engine was checked for wear, it 's using standard B16A pistons.


It's still made quite okay power.. even with 15xxxxkms on the counter.

Kinda happy that the B16A made that kind of power.. till I found another one that made 174whp with a similar problem to mine... ROFL!!

Well.. this is the near final moments of my B16A.. will probably be in my car for another month or two... or make that 3, depending on how my budget goes.

Due to the differences in dyno designs.. please don't take the values at face value, because I'm comparing to two previous EGs that generate around 14x whp after tuning...

My setup is rather simple..
Stock ECU (VAFC removed and sold), mugen extractor, type R exhaust, fuel reg, plug cables are NGK power cables with normal no. 7 NGK plugs

Here goes.. let's discuss the possibilities of what you think made that kind of power.

 

[zaki]

i think your car got `toyol' :D

is it corrected or uncorrected?

 

[V8_nutter]

If the dyno figures is true,,your engine have a good power for a stock one. Stock b16a will do 148bhp and b16b will make approx. 158bhp.

 

[hattech-v]

which one is urs?

 

[SYeNi69]

If the dyno figures is true,,your engine have a good power for a stock one. Stock b16a will do 148bhp and b16b will make approx. 158bhp.

i got something here ... might be usefull to alot of u guys ... :)
especially to get ur facts straight :P hehehe ... lmao ...

B16A 1.6 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 160hp@7800rpm 111tq@7300rpm '89-'91
Civic SiR (JDM)

B16A 1.6 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 170hp@7800rpm 116tq@7300rpm '92-'95 Civic (EUR)

B16A1 1.6 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 160hp@7600rpm 111tq@5200rpm '90-'91 Civic SiR (JDM)
'90-'91 CRX SiR (JDM)

B16A2 1.6 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 160hp@7600rpm 111tq@7000rpm '99-'00 Civic Si (USA) >

B16A3 1.6 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 160hp@7600rpm 111tq@7000rpm '94-'95 DelSol VTEC (USA)

B16A4 1.6 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 170hp@7800rpm ?? '96-'00 Civic Si-RII (JDM)

B18C5 1.8 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1797 195hp@7800rpm 130tq@7600rpm '98-'01 Integra Type-R (JDM)

B16B 1.6 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 185hp@8200rpm 118tq@7500 '98-'01 Civic Type-R (JDM)

 

[hattech-v]

bro, we r talking about whp... not the engine hp as factory claimed.

 

[SYeNi69]

bro, we r talking about whp... not the engine hp as factory claimed.

my bad ... :P

saja gurau2 :P

 

[shiroitenshi]

which one is urs?

All three.. power at engine, power at wheel, and torque.
Too bad you already sold the mugen lip mie... I was really looking forward to getting it.. but 'takde jodoh' I guess... went and bought an EK9 shift linkage instead at ss racing.. installed it today and it's perfect fit with my seating position.. now to budget for some seats and I'm good to go.

Anyway.. The dyno results are shared because I'm curious as to what part does what, and if anyone runs a similar setup with higher/lower whp.

So... here's my current setup, in a more organised complete manner.

Fuel pressure regulator - Type R - 3 idle/3.5 bar (vac. removed) confirmed with sard fuel pres. meter
Mugen B18C 4-1 header,
Intake, straight pipe with HKS powerflow at the end for intake.
Everything is stock, including the flywheel and clutch.
Static ignition timing is 16 deg., which is also stock..

Another car on another dyno in KL (I forgot which shop) got 174whp with similar setup, but with a J's intake, and an ITR intake manifold. The owner was not around, so I couldn't get the dyno papers.. damn!

Too bad the compression problem won't be fixed on mine, since I'm just hanging around for the B20B to finish... went to KL to survey stuff, and currently still undecided in terms of what rod I should go for.

My friend is trying to 'racun' me to go with a GE sleeved block... but $$$$ lah!

Also, prior to dyno run, engine is warmed up nicely by running around the vis auto area.. :P

Since you guys say that it's quite good, no wonder the workshop fella asked me if the engine is stock.

Guess all that studying about engine thermodynamics and thinking about how to build a budget B16A paid off. (^_^)

notice the time I dynoed.. perhaps cooler air contributed a bit. :P

Notice the torque curve.. this baby likes to live in the high RPM range.. :P

Low end sucks.. this is a car you hate to get stuck in a traffic jam....

 

[shiroitenshi]

i think your car got `toyol' :D

is it corrected or uncorrected?

uncorrected.

This is the same dyno that dyno'ed another customer's EK 2.1litre with 212 whp, and 240hp on engine, and another modded B16A with an OS giken super single (I'm curious at his mod choices!) at 172 engine hp (singaporean car) at 15xhp atw. no correction definitely, because considering I'm running stock ECU.. any inflation would not make me use unichip mah, since I already make good power with the stock ECU.. ROFL!

 

[shiroitenshi]

If the dyno figures is true,,your engine have a good power for a stock one. Stock b16a will do 148bhp and b16b will make approx. 158bhp.

Hmmm... I wonder how the torque curve looks like on other B16As.. I only had B20B's dyno charts (from the same dyno for comparison) and the B20B torque numbers before VTEC is like mine post VTEC.. ROFL!!!

Anyway, hopefully this also contributes to the earlier threads as to how 4-1 distributes power on B-series engine.. low bottom end and mid, and drastic climb to the torque numbers at the upper RPM range.

Seriously, the numbers do not reflect performance, as the low end means that I get left behind on launch... it *should* be nice on the track with some heel toe techniques to keep it going at the high rpm ranges.

 

[nksc]

good power for a simple mod..

 

[shiroitenshi]

Another thing I think that can affect horsepower is the pipe length of the intake to the manifold.. Mine is purposely lengthened because my theory says that longer pipes = better high rpm power. Too bad dyno time isn't free, or not I would have tweaked the pipe length and do multiple runs.. :P

Oopps forgot to blank out the number on one of the charts.. guess you guys know my car number already.. luckily, I already bought another number.. bwahaha.

 

[Enthusiast]

Nice Power.......i think the mugen header really helps alot in the high end huh........
anyways.....u can actually tweak the intake manifold pipe length?

 

[shiroitenshi]

Nice Power.......i think the mugen header really helps alot in the high end huh........
anyways.....u can actually tweak the intake manifold pipe length?

if you do a setup like this.. yes...

That aluminium pipe with the HKS intake can be pushed inwards the stock manifold hose for a shorter pipe setup, and pulled out for more length.. the current setup and the pic is similar, with the pipe at the maximum extension, which I felt gave the most power at higher revs... All theory only.. can only confirm if someone allow me to borrow their dyno for a couple of runs. :P

The AEM CAI makes good power.. even with this numbers I got dusted by one car plus for a 400m run with his B18CR with stock everything except the mugen extractor and AEM intake.. too bad he's not so interested in dynoing his ride. (x_x)

 

[zaki]

uncorrected.

This is the same dyno that dyno'ed another customer's EK 2.1litre with 212 whp, and 240hp on engine, and another modded B16A with an OS giken super single (I'm curious at his mod choices!) at 172 engine hp (singaporean car) at 15xhp atw. no correction definitely, because considering I'm running stock ECU.. any inflation would not make me use unichip mah, since I already make good power with the stock ECU.. ROFL!

no wonder. :)

 

[zaki]

Hmmm... I wonder how the torque curve looks like on other B16As.. I only had B20B's dyno charts (from the same dyno for comparison) and the B20B torque numbers before VTEC is like mine post VTEC.. ROFL!!!

Anyway, hopefully this also contributes to the earlier threads as to how 4-1 distributes power on B-series engine.. low bottom end and mid, and drastic climb to the torque numbers at the upper RPM range.

Seriously, the numbers do not reflect performance, as the low end means that I get left behind on launch... it *should* be nice on the track with some heel toe techniques to keep it going at the high rpm ranges.

This is another stock b16a dyno. it has Jasma header, Toda flywheel, 2.2inch zorst pipe, tuned ECU and the rest is stock.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/zakinen/Dyno/StockB16Abretune-1.jpg

 

[Oderf]

cool stuff

Shiro, i wonder how much more WHP u'll get with a pair of B16B cams plus PCT pistons ....

 

[shiroitenshi]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/zakinen/Dyno/StockB16Abretune-1.jpg

Thanks.. I'm more interested in the torque curves to be honest.. so let's do a comparison with mine. Slight deviations are probably the norm because of the way different dyno's measure torque.. the dynojet is an inertial dyno, and the dastek is a load dyno. IMO, bhp numbers means jack, just the max is important I think. I think the torque curve can give us a good idea on how well the engine breathes and how the mapping works.

Conversion is done at this website, too lazy to calculate myself. I quote because if this is wrong, then the comparison is invalid. recheck manually and confirm it's accuracy.
http://www.shinano.com/xampp/skvconv.swf

let's start at 3K, since mine is like that. The est. is estimation based on map.
RPM ____your sample (1st run)_____________ mine
3000:_____127.478N-m (13kgm) ___________145.5 N-m
3500:_____125.5168N-m(12.8kgm est)______145.1 N-m 4000: ____118.6526N-m (12.1kgm est) ______143.3 N-m 4500: ____119.6332N-m (12.2kgm est)______143.4 N-m 5000: ____127.478N-m (13 kgm) __________149.4 N-m 5500: ____130.4198 (13.3kgm est)________155.7 N-m (the rest, look at map.. tiring to type this out, y'know?)

at 5.5K, the bump is there, but occurs just a little later than mine.. due to the way the measurements are marked, my guess is that your sample's power could have occured slightly earlier, like mine. As you can see, even my torque curves start to flatten out from 6K to 8K but still increasing, while your sample starts to decline, but in a very slow manner.

Notice the torque curve mimics mine.. a little drop at 4-4.5K.. and that slight bump at 6K but your sample has a slight drop after that, while mine increases higher still... Interesting that before tuning, the map mimics mine in terms of torque curves, eh zaki? The stock ECU mapping is pretty similar in distributing power.

Since you didn't say the type of exhaust extractor.. looking at the similar torque curves that your sample makes.. I'd say 4-1 as well, isn't it?

Anyway.. I'll try get the LM-1 running asap.. I want to know the A/F ratio as well. I'm running 3.5 (type R one, half bar extra from stock) at max for fuel enrichment using the stock ECU maps.. so I wonder what's my A/F is like at 8K. Maybe it's near 12.5? (O_o)

Any JB'ers that dyno at Vis before? It's a much better comparison IMO.

This weekend I'll probably do a compression test and write down the numbers for each individual cylinder (previously someone else did it, so no numbers) if it's a bit higher than stock, I think I can assume that the halfcut got it's block milled in the course of the japanese owner's use, and I gained compression & advanced valve timing, hence the power even with one cylinder suffering slight compression loss.

Too many factors in my head.. trying to eliminate all other factors first.

Notice the AF ratio is slightly changed in your sample.. for me, I would have just plonked in a VAFC and regulator for tuning, since there's not much changes required. and AF ratios do not deviate so much.

For more extreme mods, I'd probably go for a more featured piggyback/standalone, as the extrapolation done by VAFC between each RPM points might cause problems when given drastically varying air correction rates. AFAIK, since the honda ECU is also learns from it's open loop mode, might cause changes over time as well.. This is unconfirmed as yet, because I've never had the opportunity to test A/F changes over a longer time span. Hopefully I'll be able too someday.. (^_^)

Ever notice zaki? My theory says that over time, the lower rpms will start to lean out the engine as time passes.. and for the top end fuelling, no major deviations will occur since it's all closed loop, so any stuff change in the top end will stick, unless the knock sensor pulls the timing due to knocking etc. etc.

In summary.. notice how slight deviations of torque can drastically alter bhp numbers as you can see above... the torque curve explains best what kind of power you're making IMO. from your sample, the 14.19/14.62 resulted in an 8 bhp jump.. (O_o)

Zaki.. which part of malaysia you're from, ah? can sit down for TT and discuss engine tech for hours with you I think.. :P

 

[shiroitenshi]

cool stuff

Shiro, i wonder how much more WHP u'll get with a pair of B16B cams plus PCT pistons ....

not much, really.. I know we can make power with the extractor.. but to get 10hp gains not so easy with other mods... and I'm already using one of the best extractors around.

even intakes nets only 1-3hp if the intake pipe length is just right.

no 200hp on engine for my b16a. (x_x)

 

[shiroitenshi]

no wonder. :)

Do you think the dyno reads high? According to another guy.. it's slightly higher, but not too much than dyno dynojet's one. definitely 1-5hp deviation.. but not 10!

Remember that I estimated that my untuned setup makes 120whp.. so I'm kinda elated that I can achieve hp numbers that mimic 'tuned' setups with the stock ECU.

Still the numbers did impress one of the techs there, when he saw my engine looking stock like the pic. He was curious about my mods, and I shared, naturally, because I'm not competing to have the best horsepower, but rather how to get the most horsepower with less $$$$. The extractor is the most expensive part by far, costing a cool 1.8K 2nd hand.

There's always another fella with more cash that can get higher horses with various mods by trial and error, but I'm more interested in more BANG for the buck.