Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4L NA

[Tom]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Oh boy, how long is it gonna be showcased there? I might drop by BSC later today.

It'll be there will sunday night, do enjoy

I think the AMG is more expensive.

But given the choice I'd do the Merc anyday. The unfortunate thing is the Porsche looks like a lot of Porsches of old and only the eagle eyed purist would be able to spot the differences. I'm not a purist or a love of Porsches but I do like them. Just not as much as that Mercs looks! Damn! Gimme neon green AMG GTR anyday!

It's announced at the same 1.7mil, options will make all the difference,

 

[vr2turbo]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

I think the AMG is more expensive.

But given the choice I'd do the Merc anyday. The unfortunate thing is the Porsche looks like a lot of Porsches of old and only the eagle eyed purist would be able to spot the differences. I'm not a purist or a love of Porsches but I do like them. Just not as much as that Mercs looks! Damn! Gimme neon green AMG GTR anyday!

Well, it is a 911 and they will still look like a 911......

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Yes they are getting better and better, the W205 AMG for instance, comes very close to its main rival the F80 M3 in terms of dynamic, something that's unheard of for a long time. Many even complaint bout the M3 being no better than the E92 M3 (handling wise).

You are absolutely right, the absence of manual trans is the abit of a let down for purist but then again these are track monsters and when milliseconds matter, I think the a DCT would be the ideal option.

In recent years, AMG seemed to be making lots of improvements and pushing out a lot of new models. Leaning more towards track performance unlike before where they are mostly brutal high speed cruisers.

I think it is unlikely to see AMG offering manual transmission anymore. Mercedes are always embracing newer tech instead of holding on to traditional values unlike Porsche. Different approach in making cars. Some manufacturer always tries to go ahead with new tech while some will try to preserve their identity while applying innovative features to it.

You know what, as much as I love the stick, I think it's going to be pretty hard to choose the manual box and then sign the dotted line when I get there. I can imagine it'll be quite a huge decision.

I'll need more time with the manual to know for sure

Sounds like you are having some doubts with the manual box. Why? Is it because the PDK feels that good until manual feels not relevant anymore in this machine?

 

[Tom]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Sounds like you are having some doubts with the manual box. Why? Is it because the PDK feels that good until manual feels not relevant anymore in this machine?

well in a way, It is a choice between lap times and driving enjoyment.
Say the GT3, I know for sure with the manual box, it will be the sweetest thing to drive
But I also know, that ticking the manual box instead of PDK will mean I will lose out on be able to extract 100% from the GT3. Simply because the PDK/DCT or even some of today's automatics have become so good, it's hard to find fault in them.

So I'll need to ask myself, do I want to sacrifice that major driving enjoyment factor for 3 pedals?

Now, if we go one step below and talk about hot hatches or anything under 350hp, then I don't think it really matters, manual all the way. I say 350hp because even the AMG 45, if there was ever a manual option, It's going to be pretty hard to want a manual version with the amount of performance it possesses.

I still like my manual alot, but these days it's getting more generation or car specific. Such as the Type-R of all generations for example or the pre 991 era Porsches maybe, H gate Ferraris and such.

I read Toyota will be releasing a hybrid box where it's like DCT but has 3 pedals where the clutch is electric and can mimic the clutch pedal and has slots in the gear console to allow 6 speed shifts. that will be pretty cool. I was wondering if that was possible some time ago but looks like Toyota's gonna try that out.

 

[vr2turbo]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Yup, with technology advancement anything can possible, so the day of MT can be numbered. Look at cam less engine tech, thought it was not possible those days....

 

[g4i8y0t]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Modern tech is helpful and convenient, no doubt. However, they lack 'soul' and involvement, which we, humans need, to feel fulfilled and content. Autonomous driving, touch screen instead of physical buttons and knobs, DCTs, CVTs, all of these

 

[Izso]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

in a way i agree with Tom. The PDK is really a good piece of equipment. Hell, even on the Tsukuba (I think) track, the automatic CVT version of the HONDA CRZ was faster on track than the manual CRZ. I guess it depends on what it is you want.

Engagement, I'd say the manual. Fast as hell and plenty of control - the PDK probably would do a better job.

 

[vr2turbo]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

in a way i agree with Tom. The PDK is really a good piece of equipment. Hell, even on the Tsukuba (I think) track, the automatic CVT version of the HONDA CRZ was faster on track than the manual CRZ. I guess it depends on what it is you want.

Engagement, I'd say the manual. Fast as hell and plenty of control - the PDK probably would do a better job.

CVT would have be even greater if they were in F1.....lol
https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/05/03/banned-continuously-variable-transmission-cvt/

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

well in a way, It is a choice between lap times and driving enjoyment.
Say the GT3, I know for sure with the manual box, it will be the sweetest thing to drive
But I also know, that ticking the manual box instead of PDK will mean I will lose out on be able to extract 100% from the GT3. Simply because the PDK/DCT or even some of today's automatics have become so good, it's hard to find fault in them.

So I'll need to ask myself, do I want to sacrifice that major driving enjoyment factor for 3 pedals?

Now, if we go one step below and talk about hot hatches or anything under 350hp, then I don't think it really matters, manual all the way. I say 350hp because even the AMG 45, if there was ever a manual option, It's going to be pretty hard to want a manual version with the amount of performance it possesses.

I still like my manual alot, but these days it's getting more generation or car specific. Such as the Type-R of all generations for example or the pre 991 era Porsches maybe, H gate Ferraris and such.

I read Toyota will be releasing a hybrid box where it's like DCT but has 3 pedals where the clutch is electric and can mimic the clutch pedal and has slots in the gear console to allow 6 speed shifts. that will be pretty cool. I was wondering if that was possible some time ago but looks like Toyota's gonna try that out.

Is it true that by opting for the manual box, the potential for extracting the maximum performance from the car will be slightly reduced. But then again, perhaps we should ask ourselves this question. Are we using the car as a full time track car and are we really aiming to get the best lap time/performance out of the car all the time?

If it is not a car that you purchase solely for track and maximum performance, choosing the manual box for driving enjoyment is worth it, I think. You have more interaction and engagement with the car. The performance difference is not very big either but the enjoyment of shifting gears with a gear stick, balancing the clutch, rev matching and executing heel toe is wonderful experience that cannot be replicated with paddle shifters. Perhaps in future, the manual variant will even hold more value due to its rarity.

I've heard about the 86 based Toyota concept car that you mentioned. If cars like that is released, I hope the electric clutch will still have the weight feeling of an ordinary clutch. If it is too light, it might feel weird?

 

[Tom]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

\

in a way i agree with Tom. The PDK is really a good piece of equipment. Hell, even on the Tsukuba (I think) track, the automatic CVT version of the HONDA CRZ was faster on track than the manual CRZ. I guess it depends on what it is you want.

Engagement, I'd say the manual. Fast as hell and plenty of control - the PDK probably would do a better job.

Now that is interesting CVT quicker than the Manual , is there a video on this? I'll try to look it up too

CVT would have be even greater if they were in F1.....lol
https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/05/03/banned-continuously-variable-transmission-cvt/

Just glanced through the article, I never knew Williams once developed the CVT, and like the article says the sound must have been like something from outer space

Modern tech is helpful and convenient, no doubt. However, they lack 'soul' and involvement, which we, humans need, to feel fulfilled and content. Autonomous driving, touch screen instead of physical buttons and knobs, DCTs, CVTs, all of these

Is it true that by opting for the manual box, the potential for extracting the maximum performance from the car will be slightly reduced. But then again, perhaps we should ask ourselves this question. Are we using the car as a full time track car and are we really aiming to get the best lap time/performance out of the car all the time?

If it is not a car that you purchase solely for track and maximum performance, choosing the manual box for driving enjoyment is worth it, I think. You have more interaction and engagement with the car. The performance difference is not very big either but the enjoyment of shifting gears with a gear stick, balancing the clutch, rev matching and executing heel toe is wonderful experience that cannot be replicated with paddle shifters. Perhaps in future, the manual variant will even hold more value due to its rarity.

I've heard about the 86 based Toyota concept car that you mentioned. If cars like that is released, I hope the electric clutch will still have the weight feeling of an ordinary clutch. If it is too light, it might feel weird?

Totally agreed

What I'm trying to say is, the graph for manual box enjoyment sort of tapers off and remain constant as the car gets faster. For example, nothing can replace a 6 speed manual when driving the S2K, FD2R even the MINI cooper S from 0 up to a 100 percent. But in say the GT3 or anything faster however, they have PDK or DCTs that are so good, it provides a different kind of enjoyment that can only be had with the said transmissions.

I guess it's a different form of enjoyment, not one that can replace or is better, just different tools to operate different machines

But I am still leaning on the manual, just not exactly sure since I have yet to spend time with one for more than 48 hours :)

 

[Izso]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Now that is interesting CVT quicker than the Manual , is there a video on this? I'll try to look it up too

I've been looking for it on Youtube. I think this was when the CRZ was shortly released and I think it was Best Motoring. The CVT was nearly a second faster than the 6-speed manual. Different drivers though

 

[parakey]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Is it true that by opting for the manual box, the potential for extracting the maximum performance from the car will be slightly reduced. But then again, perhaps we should ask ourselves this question. Are we using the car as a full time track car and are we really aiming to get the best lap time/performance out of the car all the time?

If it is not a car that you purchase solely for track and maximum performance, choosing the manual box for driving enjoyment is worth it, I think. You have more interaction and engagement with the car. The performance difference is not very big either but the enjoyment of shifting gears with a gear stick, balancing the clutch, rev matching and executing heel toe is wonderful experience that cannot be replicated with paddle shifters. Perhaps in future, the manual variant will even hold more value due to its rarity.

I've heard about the 86 based Toyota concept car that you mentioned. If cars like that is released, I hope the electric clutch will still have the weight feeling of an ordinary clutch. If it is too light, it might feel weird?

Have you ever driven a CVT up a curvy mountain road ? Something like Fraser's or the Tapah - Cameron stretch. Some of those corners are so close to each other. Not much time to shift gears and yet steer at the same time.

 

[s.marz]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Have you ever driven a CVT up a curvy mountain road ? Something like Fraser's or the Tapah - Cameron stretch. Some of those corners are so close to each other. Not much time to shift gears and yet steer at the same time.

Sounds like a great to drive, do you have any exact route for that? I'd be interested to try.

 

[parakey]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Sounds like a great to drive, do you have any exact route for that? I'd be interested to try.

No special route. Those are the main trunk roads leading to those destinations. Quite narrow and twisty. May be advisable to pick a good hour before embarking on them.

BTW, the road surface of the Tapah > Ringlet stretch can be quite bad

Jalan Ampang Pechah leading to KKB is a nice scenic route. Well surfaced and fairly quite when I traversed it yesterday

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

\
Totally agreed

What I'm trying to say is, the graph for manual box enjoyment sort of tapers off and remain constant as the car gets faster. For example, nothing can replace a 6 speed manual when driving the S2K, FD2R even the MINI cooper S from 0 up to a 100 percent. But in say the GT3 or anything faster however, they have PDK or DCTs that are so good, it provides a different kind of enjoyment that can only be had with the said transmissions.

I guess it's a different form of enjoyment, not one that can replace or is better, just different tools to operate different machines

But I am still leaning on the manual, just not exactly sure since I have yet to spend time with one for more than 48 hours :)

Hmmm, perhaps it the feeling of a seamless and uninterrupted g force feeling is the reason for this different kind of enjoyment in DCT transmission? I mean, the car can just accelerate without any interruption during gear changes unlike manual where acceleration is stopped momentarily during gear changes. This is the kind of thing that cannot be done with a manual transmission as there is a delay during gear change.

After reading your post, it seems that in supercar tier, manual transmission seems less relevant now. How about another question that is a bit off topic. If lets say you have a choice between a manual Golf GTi/Scirocco VS a DSG variant, which one will you go for?

Have you ever driven a CVT up a curvy mountain road ? Something like Fraser's or the Tapah - Cameron stretch. Some of those corners are so close to each other. Not much time to shift gears and yet steer at the same time.

Nope. The only curvy mountain road that I have driven before would be the one from Chenderiang to Tapah. Very narrow mountain road. I'm not driving a CVT car. Using manual and indeed I find myself shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear too often in order to stay on optimum power band.

 

[s.marz]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

No special route. Those are the main trunk roads leading to those destinations. Quite narrow and twisty. May be advisable to pick a good hour before embarking on them.

BTW, the road surface of the Tapah > Ringlet stretch can be quite bad

Jalan Ampang Pechah leading to KKB is a nice scenic route. Well surfaced and fairly quite when I traversed it yesterday

After I took another look at GMap you're right, it is! It's been a long time since I was there. Maybe it's time to get up there again haha

Yea the Tapah > Ringlet is pretty bad especially at this weather now.

 

[parakey]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Nope. The only curvy mountain road that I have driven before would be the one from Chenderiang to Tapah. Very narrow mountain road. I'm not driving a CVT car. Using manual and indeed I find myself shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear too often in order to stay on optimum power band.

Yeah, that's what I am trying to convey. When the corners are twisty and comes hard and fast at you, it's difficult to drive a manual and remain focused on the next bend. A CVT keeps you on the power band. You can focus on avoiding the opposing car that suddenly appears from the blind corner

 

[parakey]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

After I took another look at GMap you're right, it is! It's been a long time since I was there. Maybe it's time to get up there again haha

Lol .. .if you're going, remember to fill up at KKB before heading to Fraser's.

 

[Tom]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Hmmm, perhaps it the feeling of a seamless and uninterrupted g force feeling is the reason for this different kind of enjoyment in DCT transmission? I mean, the car can just accelerate without any interruption during gear changes unlike manual where acceleration is stopped momentarily during gear changes. This is the kind of thing that cannot be done with a manual transmission as there is a delay during gear change.

After reading your post, it seems that in supercar tier, manual transmission seems less relevant now. How about another question that is a bit off topic. If lets say you have a choice between a manual Golf GTi/Scirocco VS a DSG variant, which one will you go for?

yeah, short answer would be the seamless gear transition, although it is more about the ceremony that envelops every gear change. Sound upon shift is one, sensation of the actual shift is the other, and then there's the knowing the sort of engineering that is needed to make such shift times possible. All these little details contribute to the enjoyment of operating these supercars as a package. Package meaning even the "digital" tranny which is in fact just as important as the engine these days.

So, if you can just imagine, with the manual box GT3, all these are non-existent. It is just the manual tranny, clutch set, clutch pump, clutch pedal and relevant assembly that is sitting in between the magical engine and brilliant chassis.

Now, no matter how big a manual connoisseur one can be, the big question is, can you accept that difference, or in many ways a disadvantage / disability in a car such as the GT3?

my previous reply, i mentioned for anything under 350hp, it should be the manual. These days it also depends on the specific car. Some cars just aren't enjoyable as a manual

 

[vr2turbo]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Have you ever driven a CVT up a curvy mountain road ? Something like Fraser's or the Tapah - Cameron stretch. Some of those corners are so close to each other. Not much time to shift gears and yet steer at the same time.

Cameron route a bit too tight, but love the route to Fraser those days.....